Neighborhood quandary

[BearBio]

Here's one I could use some advice on:
As I have alluded we have a pretty nice yard: Native plants in the front and native plants with veggies in the back. Over the years, we have lost some of our "crops" to nature in the form of minor predation. This year it is starting earlier and more heavily. Some bird feeders have disappeared, "safe" rodent bait has disappeared. Blackberries and tomatoes have disappeared or been bitten. The culprits appear to be invasive red squirrels, roof rats and maybe raccoons. I don't mind the birds.

Here's the issue: Our good neighbor across the dirt alley between the streets feeds the birds and squirrels. Last year, we found over 100 peanuts buried in our vegetable garden! Not a problem except the squirrels tease my dog (s). I made up some "safe" rodent pesticide (only kills rats, mice & squirrels). BTW: As a biologist, I know that squirrels are merely "rats with a hairy tail! We had dinner with Bill & Jane, his wife, on the 4th, as we often do. I told them what I had done and why. The next day he came over and my wife said he was distraught because he had found out the rat bait would kill squirrels as well as rats & mice. Since (especially his wife) are good neighbors (they have watched our dog while we were on vacation, helped with handyman duties, etc). Now, the wife just came in and said she flushed a rat while watering and wants me to another batch of rodent bait & "judiciously" put it out. I can't use a pellet gun to get rid of them (Houses are too close and some neighbors might complain, although if the raccoons become to much of a danger to the dogs, I will shoot them).

Do I risk my friendship with them (15+ years) or let the rats & squirrels increase?? Squirrels carry most of the same diseases as do rats an d mice.

 

[Hilldweller]

It’s a tough road that one. (Mice/rats/critters that is)

Other than having a pair of owls take up residence at your place it’s tough to get rid of the critters without poisoning other critters. Living in a country/farmland setting we get every kind of critter and creepy-crawly you can think of.
For the past few years we’ve had at least one pair of owls, if not two, build their nests on our property. They were a definite help, albeit not a total solution. They even helped with the mole/vole population to a certain degree.

Friends are worth more than some berries and veggies. If it’s a “casual” garden and not something you depend on to feed yourselves I’d say keep the friends.

You might want to try raised beds with a lower “protection” skirt is one thing to try. (Anti-squirrel type thing) Neighbors son built her a couple near the house so she didn’t have to walk so far to water/harvest. She has said they’ve helped with the lettuce. We have lots of bunnies thanks to people getting them at Easter and having them escape.
Of course if you’re planting something they like they’ll do anything they can to get it. That said it’s change crops or live with (and anticipate) the loss.

We’ve shared a 50’x50’ garden bed with our neighbors. It’s on their property next door and we help till, plant, and water each year. We haven’t seen much loss and they haven’t mentioned it either. Maybe we’re lucky. We plant zucchini, peppers, corn, lettuce, onions, carrots….the list goes on. In fact there is enough for us to put the excess out on a table at the road. “Free”.

Situations like that are difficult and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with the situation.

 

[NW Hunter]

I’ve lived along a creek for 32 years. There are rats and squirrels everywhere. Numerous chicken coops in the area don’t help the situation either.
I have neighbors who have built enclosed gardens with pressure treated frames and enclosed with wire mesh. The tops are enclosed with wire mesh also. I see beautiful plants inside.
I have numerous bait boxes throughout my yard staked to rebar with heavy cable. It’s a constant battle for sure.
Bottom line, I believe you must change tactics to ensure your friendship continues to flourish.

 

[VancMike]

I can do with all nature except rats. My daughter had them in the vines growing over a wall in her Seattle home and was Meh with them until they discovered that they were tunnelling up into their kitchen and sharing dog food. A lot of carpentry and pest control followed. She wasn't sure what they used, but the rats are gone and no dogs, cats, birds nor squirrels were harmed. Or so they say.

The eastern grey squirrel is an invasive species in Washington and I not sure I have ever seen any other species except while still hunting in forests. And I'm not smart enough to actually know the difference.

 

[BearBio]

Still wondering what to do. Put some bait out in selected positions. I do depend on our tomato plants for a sizeable porting of our grocery list (spaghetti sauce, BBQ sauce, hot sauce, "Rotel", enchilada sauces, etc.) I dry our own herbs and peppers, not much of a loss there. I figure we save several hundred $$$ each year. Blackberry pies (I make about 15 or so & freeze them, plus jam). With prices what they are, we can't afford much in losses. Fifteen pies @ $7.00 each is $750.00 alone.

Thinking about collecting a couple of bull/gopher snakes and introducing them to my yard (Might go after the quail though). Rubber snakes????

 

[BearBio]

Still wondering what to do. Put some bait out in selected positions. I do depend on our tomato plants for a sizeable porting of our grocery list (spaghetti sauce, BBQ sauce, hot sauce, "Rotel", enchilada sauces, etc.) I dry our own herbs and peppers, not much of a loss there. I figure we save several hundred $$$ each year. Blackberry pies (I make about 15 or so & freeze them, plus jam). With prices what they are, we can't afford much in losses. Fifteen pies @ $7.00 each is $750.00 alone.

Thinking about collecting a couple of bull/gopher snakes and introducing them to my yard (Might go after the quail though). Rubber snakes????

Out wiyj the wife measuring for a drip sprinkler system and a d**m rat ran across behind me!!!!

 

[Hilldweller]

Still wondering what to do. Put some bait out in selected positions. I do depend on our tomato plants for a sizeable porting of our grocery list (spaghetti sauce, BBQ sauce, hot sauce, "Rotel", enchilada sauces, etc.) I dry our own herbs and peppers, not much of a loss there. I figure we save several hundred $$$ each year. Blackberry pies (I make about 15 or so & freeze them, plus jam). With prices what they are, we can't afford much in losses. Fifteen pies @ $7.00 each is $750.00 alone.

Thinking about collecting a couple of bull/gopher snakes and introducing them to my yard (Might go after the quail though). Rubber snakes????

Ummmm…..$750?………

 

[BearBio]

Ummmm…..$750?………

Hey!! I BARELY got through calculus.!!! Used my head instead of a calculator!!!! S/B $105.00. (But MY pies are well worth $750.00 for 15!!!!!!!!!)

 

[VancMike]

On one of our first trips in our marriage, my wife and I took my (now vintage.. another one of those vehicles I should never sold) Chevy pickup up to Mt. Rainier. On the way, we stopped off and bought a whole blackberry pie at one of the cafes near the entrance. We couldn't afford to stay at any of the lodges but had a camp stove, a few groceries and sleeping bags. We ate half the pie and watched the sun go down in Paradise Lodge parking lot, snuggled up under the pickup canopy and ate the other half the next morning with coffee.

I'd pay $7500 to be able to replicate that experience again. Damn, that was a good pie!

 

[BearBio]

Putting in drip irrigation in the back yard to water berries, tomatoes and natives. Different regimen for each! Takes 2 hours/day to harvest, & water! Wife is taking a part time job @ the hospital and my hand is pretty near healed up, So I'm taking over!

Plan:

BTW: Niece saw 5 dead squirrels on the way to Starbucks in Safeway (We are near Washington Park= about 1 mile walk!). Told her to keep her eye out for more in case we have an epidemic starting (OR, a kid got a NEW BB gun for his B'day!)! Put two rubber snakes out we got at Hooked on Toys!

 

[BearBio]

Spaghetti & ravioli for the next couple of nights:
1 qt home made sauce, i pt stewed tomatoes, i large can Marzano tomato puree, can of mushrooms, can of sliced olives, 1/2 lb Italian sausage (browned & crumbled), garlic, basil & oregano. Chopped bell pepper.

Bruschetta:
Diced tomatoes, diced yellow bell pepper, diced cucumber, fresh basil, fresh oregano, touch of garlic, Red wine vinegar. Proportions to your discretion.

 

[BearBio]

Spaghetti & ravioli for the next couple of nights:
1 qt home made sauce, i pt stewed tomatoes, i large can Marzano tomato puree, can of mushrooms, can of sliced olives, 1/2 lb Italian sausage (browned & crumbled), garlic, basil & oregano. Chopped bell pepper.

Bruschetta:
Diced tomatoes, diced yellow bell pepper, diced cucumber, fresh basil, fresh oregano, touch of garlic, Red wine vinegar. Proportions to your discretion.

Nice surprise: I found I had 3 quarts of spaghetti sauce in the pantry instead of one (out of 25 or 26 I canned last fall!!!!).

Milkweeds (of several species) are getting ready to burst their seed pods=Soon I'll have seeds to provide to people for planting!!

 

[VancMike]

Milkweed! They don't grow as well here on the wet side. Do you get many Monarch?

 

[VancMike]

Back to the original conundrum. My first firearm was a Savage 24, .22/.410. I've already talked about culling the neighbors' vege gardens of bunnies for fun and profit.
I used .22 short because, at the time, they were cheaper than longs or LR. Of course, now they're more expensive. But, in my 24, they were also very quiet. I attribute that to a closed breech and a relatively long barrel.

Can you shoot rats and (shhh) squirrels without alerting your neighbor? A bolt action would do as well. I'm thinking a vintage Stevens, Savage, Winchester or Remington, but I suppose something new and fancy would do as well.

There are also lots of subsonic rounds on the market as well but I don't know how accurate they are.

 

[Hilldweller]

Can you shoot rats and (shhh) squirrels without alerting your neighbor? A bolt action would do as well. I'm thinking a vintage Stevens, Savage, Winchester or Remington, but I suppose something new and fancy would do as well.

There are also lots of subsonic rounds on the market as well but I don't know how accurate they are.

I’m old, and if it were me I’d go with an“old school” pump action like my ‘36 Winchester Model 62 (it can use any .22 cartridge-S/L/LR/Shot Shell) or a bolt action. You shouldn’t need more than one shot.

As for subsonic’s I’ve never had a problem with accuracy. Although I’m not taking 30+ yard shots at squirrels.
You might also consider using the .22 cal “shot shells” for your “hunting”. Pretty much takes the guesswork out of your POI.

 

[Hilldweller]

Nice surprise: I found I had 3 quarts of spaghetti sauce in the pantry instead of one (out of 25 or 26 I canned last fall!!!!).

Milkweeds (of several species) are getting ready to burst their seed pods=Soon I'll have seeds to provide to people for planting!!

Okay You…..either quit teasing me or tell me (and wife) when we should arrive for dinner !

 

[BearBio]

Okay You…..either quit teasing me or tell me (and wife) when we should arrive for dinner !

I overslept a nap so you have about 20 min. Bruschetta & pasta & sauce. PM quick for address!!!

 

[BearBio]

Milkweed! They don't grow as well here on the wet side. Do you get many Monarch?

NO, none so far. When I worked for US Fish and Wildlife, I was Project Manager on a grant for captive raising of monarch in Yakima. They had a small release celebration. A local friend says she gets some. She's asked for some seeds. Definite increase in swallowtails and saw my first large hairstreak this AM. More smaller butterflies also. This is our second year with milkweed.

You might try swamp milkweed. It does well in moister conditions.

 

[BearBio]

Back to the original conundrum. My first firearm was a Savage 24, .22/.410. I've already talked about culling the neighbors' vege gardens of bunnies for fun and profit.
I used .22 short because, at the time, they were cheaper than longs or LR. Of course, now they're more expensive. But, in my 24, they were also very quiet. I attribute that to a closed breech and a relatively long barrel.

Can you shoot rats and (shhh) squirrels without alerting your neighbor? A bolt action would do as well. I'm thinking a vintage Stevens, Savage, Winchester or Remington, but I suppose something new and fancy would do as well.

There are also lots of subsonic rounds on the market as well but I don't know how accurate they are.

I've got a Gamo Raptor single shot .177 pellet gun. Just need to get it sighted. Gives me 22 short velocities.

 

[BearBio]

I've got a Gamo Raptor single shot .177 pellet gun. Just need to get it sighted. Gives me 22 short velocities.

Talking to the wife this AM: I was outside under the gazebo, reading up on installing some dripline this week when a squirrel hopped along the fence, over a rubber snake I put as a deterrent, ran past the horned owl decoy and started nibbling on some berries! He was 7-8 feet away from me. I shouted and waived my arms and he only ran to the telephone, then crept back!. Scared him off two more times!

We decided I should get a lesser powered BB gun. Had my eye on a Crosman M-1 Carbine copy with FULL AUTO capabilities.(430 fps). Got it. The guys at Hooked-on-Toys are all gonna come over one of the next two Sundays for spaghetti and a squirrel shoot.

Matches my Ruger 10-22 M-1 Carbine and my 1943 Inland Carbine

 

[Unshaven2897]

I read the original post. I briefly scanned the following comments. I'll go back and peruse.

You @BearBio are the victim of the seasons and the year. Every year is different with that critter that destroys one thing or something else. They adjust much more than people. Heck, you are a biologist - you know that. But when it comes to a neighbor they don't go away so easy when food sources change.

We deal with that constantly with city land owners. Everything has to be like last year. But that never happens. Everything changes year after year with the pattern of the day - mostly related to weather pattern which no one has a say.

You know this stuff already. You have to educate your neighbor. If they can't accept it then they are worse off than the squirrel.

 

[Unshaven2897]

Talking to the wife this AM: I was outside under the gazebo, reading up on installing some dripline this week when a squirrel hopped along the fence, over a rubber snake I put as a deterrent, ran past the horned owl decoy and started nibbling on some berries! He was 7-8 feet away from me. I shouted and waived my arms and he only ran to the telephone, then crept back!. Scared him off two more times!

We decided I should get a lesser powered BB gun. Had my eye on a Crosman M-1 Carbine copy with FULL AUTO capabilities.(430 fps). Got it. The guys at Hooked-on-Toys are all gonna come over one of the next two Sundays for spaghetti and a squirrel shoot.

View attachment 249

Matches my Ruger 10-22 M-1 Carbine and my 1943 Inland Carbine

View attachment 251

Does it hit the bear with double 00 who killed a pig and hauled it off, scwilling the whole time?

It makes me angry . It was Junior. A prime big pig?

You have never experienced horror when a pig gets hauled off, screaming. One that is hand fed. The bear was well fed.

 

[BearBio]

Does it hit the bear with double 00 who killed a pig and hauled it off, scwilling the whole time?

It makes me angry . It was Junior. A prime big pig?

You have never experienced horror when a pig gets hauled off, screaming. One that is hand fed. The bear was well fed.

I don't understand! I know of no instance when preventing depredation is illegal ("In defense of life or property"). I have chased a mountain
lion off that was after friends' horses. Shot coyotes at night, shot ground squirrels (their colonies can undermine the ground and livestock can break a leg),

 

[BearBio]

I read the original post. I briefly scanned the following comments. I'll go back and peruse.

You @BearBio are the victim of the seasons and the year. Every year is different with that critter that destroys one thing or something else. They adjust much more than people. Heck, you are a biologist - you know that. But when it comes to a neighbor they don't go away so easy when food sources change.

We deal with that constantly with city land owners. Everything has to be like last year. But that never happens. Everything changes year after year with the pattern of the day - mostly related to weather pattern which no one has a say.

You know this stuff already. You have to educate your neighbor. If they can't accept it then they are worse off than the squirrel.

I tried but he has been "Bambi-ized" too much. Getting nasty on Facebook. We both need to back off!

 

[VancMike]

Just don't shoot a squirrel so that it falls off on his side of the fence...